"The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer

[john123]

Doug,


Steven Walls - I googled this so its no secret - (860) 747-6449 20 Hickory Ln, Plainville, CT 06062

I am not sure if this is him, but might be worth a try - only cost a phone call. I won't call just in case it is him, I wouldn't even know where to start.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that Sajer briefly described a machine gun bunker on the beach just north of Memel. Well here it is folks. I read that much of the beach has washed away and that a areas under the bunker are now exposed - this wasn't the case in WWII.

http://gallery.gricius.net/v/cities/klaipeda_beach

[Doug Nash]

Wow - that's impressive. I'm surprised that the Soviets didn't blow it up after the war, like they did to the German bunker system in Pomerania and Silesia.
By the way, in regards to Sajer's mention of a "Battle of Belorod", there was no such battle known by that name. What's he's clearly referring to is the Kursk Offensive. Belgorod was closer to where Sajer was than Kursk - which, after all, was inside the middle of the Kursk bulge and surrounded by a million Soviet troops. Belgorod was the nearest town of any significance to where Sajer's unit was operating. As Sajer once wrote me, most of the time he didn't have a clue where he was. Most grunts in any Army of that time didn't. Nowadays, its different since it seems like everyone has a GPS.
If you read the chapter in question (Chapter 6), it very clearly takes place in the summer of 1943. Sajer said that a noncom told him that they were 3 miles northwest of Belgorod - actually, the GD's assembly area was more like 25 miles northwest of Belgorod, in the vicinity of the town of Tomarovka. Shortly after the Kursk offensive was called off, the GD was sent around the Kursk bulge to the north where it fought at Karachev, so the GD never fought at Belgorod during the summer of 1943 - so again, Sajer's description clearly dovetails with the events that took place during the Kursk offensive.
anyway, just my two cents - liked the pictures of the Memel coastline!
Cheers,
Doug Nash

[john123]

Doug,

This may not have been built by the Germans; I seem to recall, without referring back to the book, that Sajer even mentioned that the bunker(s) appeared to have been there for a long time, even then.

Anyway, I am happy to vindicate "Guy Sajer" whenever I can. I just feel the book it very truthful, even if not completely accurate. :)

If you read the chapter in question (Chapter 6), it very clearly takes place in the summer of 1943. Sajer said that a noncom told him that they were 3 miles northwest of Belgorod - actually, the GD's assembly area was more like 25 miles northwest of Belgorod, in the vicinity of the town of Tomarovka. Shortly after the Kursk offensive was called off, the GD was sent around the Kursk bulge to the north where it fought at Karachev, so the GD never fought at Belgorod during the summer of 1943 - so again, Sajer's description clearly dovetails with the events that took place during the Kursk offensive.

Again, I have not read this in awhile, but I seem to recall that at this time he was transferred or reassigned as some sort of replacement in a different unit. I also think I read somewhere, and I even think it was you who wrote it, that someone had talked to a wehrmacht vet who was in the GD during this particular offensive and remembered a "Sajer". So this part seems like it all fit - until now. Now I'm confused. Maybe you can add something more on the points I am raising?

[Doug Nash]

Sorry - I momentarily confused you with Panzerschreck. He's been tracking Sajer's travels fairly concientously and somehow I conflated your posting with his. Amazing, the more you look into the minute details of Sajer stories (as far as places and events) the more it corroborates his story. Lots of folks simply can't get past his erroneous statements concerning which side one wore his cufftitle in the GD and miss the larger narrative. I've traced him as far as I can using available records and eyewitnesses but only Sajer himself, if he wishes, can clear things up. By the way, he turns 81 this month (or 80, depending on which version of his story you heard), but I was able to lay my hands on a copy of the 3 Feb. 1968 edition of Paris Match, which includes an early interview of him. In his interview with Paris Match, he stated that he was born in January 1926, which would make him 16 years old when he volunteered for the Wehrmacht in July 1942. This was confirmed by a French Army associate of mine who stole a peek at his military record at their retired military records center in Paris. This particular aspect of the controversy, i.e., his age, has been remarked upon by many who felt that his advertures with the GD as described in his book could not have possible happened if he was born a year later - i.e., 1927 (this date was used in an interview of Sajer by the Brussels BD comic book magazine). Lots of ink has been spilled in this forum on this aspect of the controversy, and I won't go into it here. But like I said, the more you read, the more you see.
Would a movie adequately depict his story? I doubt it, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Cheers,
Doug

[Mansal D]

Our very own Rudi Salvermoser has lent me one of his copies of this book. I'm about 50 pages in and it is looking great!

[panzerschreck1]

Hi all it's been a while!

Great pics John! i guess them cliffs are resembling with the descriptions.

Here about the Kursk offensive (Sajer says that neighbouring WH units joined the fighting on the plain , just before the intense bombardement
(his little group of 8 survivers incl. the fat stabs) after that they withdrew to a fairly strong ahmm yes stronghold in a village right in front of some woods...considering Sajer subscribes 2 weeks of numb fighting in some sort of town and after that around approx. 16/17/18 july he ends up on a plain in the immense Kursk area so read the following and imagine the positions and heavy attacks i would place him in front of the Tolstoje woods next to 3rd Panzer division...the WH unit+LT he describes after fleeing from the intense bombardement from the plain must had been 3/11th Panzer since GD was in between those.

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ight=kursk

If Sajer was at the Belgorod counter offensive which he does describes a counter to regain Belgorod then he must had been in one of the following units, or GD company left behind in support of /or a new batch from GD Ersatz regiment Achtyrka camp to join in the fray the time line he describes is late july probably after the Kursk.

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ight=kursk

BTW Doug i tried to contact Verhoeven at his office, got a reply and no such thing as a film of Sajer is in the pipeline!

I guess it still is to controversial to make a Hollywood movie based on a Hitler soldier!
If there were any serious plans at all....

[Spiegelsaal]

I got in on this discussion a bit late, obviously, but I'll contribute my two cents. I read Forgotten Soldier a couple of years ago while a college student at Texas A&M and it remains one of my favorite books. I am not exaggerating when I say that the book had me so fixated and emotionally drained while I was reading it that it took a toll on my grades and social life. It was the first book of its kind that I read, and I have since read Soldat, A Mind Imprisoned, and am currently reading the memoir of Von Luck. From what I've read of the controversy surrounding the authenticity of Forgotten Soldier, I must say that I truly believe Sajer's account to be valid. There are undoubtedly parts which have been distorted or altered by failing memory, but it seems like there are reasonable explanations for many of the skeptics' questions. Besides that, I want it very badly to be true.


I'd like to add that, as mentioned above, I would be enthusiastic about a movie based on this book. The book is so rich and detailed that any movie, unless it was made in multiple parts, would have to be very careful in choosing what to include or exclude. I can foresee many ways in which a movie could butcher the story, but with the right director/screen writer and team of actors a brilliant movie could be made. I know I'm dreaming here, but if a major studio was to take on this project, I wonder who would be considered to play the part of Sajer. And would this movie necessarily need to a made in the German language or not? Any thoughts?

[Doug Nash]

In regards to the film about TFS, here's what I know:

Paul Verhoeven has purchased the rights from Sajer to make a film about the book.
The screenwriter (I will withhold the name) is currently developing a draft screenplay into a full-blown screenplay, but has as of this past fall has been forced to drop it temporarily by his studio in order to do another project.
Verhoeven has not started filming anything yet. He is busy doing the publicity and marketing for his recently completed project, "Black Book."
The intent of Verhoeven and the screenwriter, who both passionately want to bring Sajer's book to the screen, is to get back to the development of the project by this summer. I no longer know when production will begin. Financing still has to be worked out as well.
This has been in the works off and on for 4 years, but eventually will get done. The hardest part was getting Sajer to agree to sign away the rights to the script. That took 3 years!
A little more patience, I say to myself!
Cheers,
Doug

[Mansal D]

That would be so awsome!

[Lexxx]

Doug,

Have you ever determined what happened to Verhoeven's "The Forgotton Soldier" project? I see that Verhoeven's documentary "The Unknown Soldier" is now available on DVD. Do you know whether or not this was in fact the project you were referring to back in 2002?

Best,

Lexxx

[Doug Nash]

Lexx, no, they're not the same project - Verhoeven just renewed the rights to the screenplay back in the Fall and he is still intending to film it - when, I don't know. I have read the re-vamped screenplay though and it is quite good - I think getting the funding secured to allow production to go forward is the biggest issue at the moment.
Cheers,
Doug

[Tom Houlihan]

If he's looking for Landser #1327, I'm available! Cheap!

[Doug Nash]

Noted - also, the entire East Coast cadre of the re-enacted Grossdeutschland has volunteered to be extras, but I think that when they do get around to filming it (In Poland, so I've heard), they will hire extras from the local area - young, skinny, malnourished Poles of today bear quite a physical resemblance to the average German soldier of 1943! I also volunteered to portray Grandsk the cook, but so far the studio hasn't taken me up on it...
don't give up trying though!
Doug

[pzrmeyer2]

Thanks for the great update Doug. We're all looking forward to this one....

[Frederick L Clemens]

If you are looking for a movie to watch that is probably the equal of the TFS novel/movie (if not better) - I highly recommend "A Time to Love and a Time to Die" done in 1958 in color and based on a novel by Erich Maria Remarque (more famous for All Quiet on the Western front).

The actors include a very young Klaus Kinski and the charming Lilo Pulver. If you don't fall in love with Lilo during this move, then you shouldn't be on Feldgrau!

Being filmed in 1958, the uniforms, equipment, and war-damaged locations are the real thing.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052296/