panzerschreck1 wrote:
Did he miss the last evac. point of the Grossdeutschland?
The last GD unit leaving Memel:
2nd Battalion, Pz.Gren.Rgt. "GD" left aboard the ship Wolta on 4 December 1944 and reached the port of Pillau near Koenigsberg without incident.
Was this the last embarkation point, due to the relentless defensive actions of the unit?
I think leutnant Wollers somehow totally missed the evac. point or was told to rearguard the entire evacuation of the last remaining GD troops,
Nevertheless the unit virtually came to the point of being entirely wiped out at Memel,
They were just ectremely lucky catching up with a boat that due to the fog,entirely missed its harbor Windau end ended up south
Ave panzerschreck,
According to Sajer, Wollers was evacuated out of Memel and made it at least as far as Hela, where he is last mentioned. I would imagine he surrendered with Sajer and the rest as he is not included in the list of the dead at the end of the book.
Vale,
-Spandau
If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze into you.
Yes i know, but my point is to make clear that it was indeed an perilous situation, and if it wasn't for that ship (destined for Windau) the whole unit
including Sajer, and Wollers offcourse would had been captured or fought to death in Memel..
Allso i'm trying to link a possibility of the 2nd battallion Pz.Gren. regiment GD being maybe the battallion Sajer was in......
Hello to all- I found this board by doing a google search on the Sajer controversy.
My take on the book is that I'm agnostic as to whether Sajer was ever in the Grossdeutschland. It seems plausible to me that he could have made up having served in an elite division in order to make it more likely the book got published.
But I think it needs to be acknowledged that the extraordinary thing about this book is not that it provides a history of the Grossdeutschland division. Rather, the extraordinary thing about the book is the description of what it felt like to be fighting for one's life on the plains of Russia against the massive Red Army. I would only be truly disappointed in the book if I felt that Sajer never served as a combat soldier in the Wehrmacht on the eastern front. And I am convinced that he did serve in this capacity.
The main reason I feel this way is that the book is filled with little details, thrown in almost as asides, about what it was like to be in certain cities and locations in Russia during this era. Just to give one example, early in the book Sajer describes Minsk as follows:
"Life for the troops in this sector was remarkably well-organized. Mail was distributed, there were films for soldiers on leave - which we were not allowed to attend - libraries, and restaurants run by Russian civilians, but reserved entirely for German soldiers. The restaurants were all to expensive for me and I never went into them ..."
Now, this is not a passage that historians will focus on, but these are the kinds of details of daily life in a place that can only be gained by BEING THERE. If Sajer was never on the Eastern Front, how was he supposed to know about the restaurant scene in Minsk and what soldiers were and were not allowed to attend movies? There are many, many examples of such details scattered throughout the book and each time I read one of them I shake my head and wonder how anyone can doubt he was actually there. A fraud would just avoid details like this and focus on things he could pick up from research.
There are also certain mistakes in the book that make it more believable for me. For example, he quotes the "favorite song of the SS" as follows:
"So weit die braune Heide geht,
Gehoert das alles wir." (as far as the brown heath goes, all that belongs to we.)
Now unless I'm badly mistaken (and I studied at a German university for a year) that's bad German- any German would say "Gehoert das alles UNS" (All that belongs to US.) From doing a google search, it appears that Sajer overheard the song "Ich bin ein freier Wildbeschutz" which has the line:
"So weit die braune Heide geht, Gehört das Jagen mir." (as far as the brown heath goes, the hunt belongs to me.)
So Sajer just misunderstood the words the SS were singing, which is very realistic for a native French speaker. If I'm correct in this regard- and I think I am- then this is a mistake that Sajer never would have made if he had tried to piece together a book from research he had done. He would have gotten a book about marching songs of the SS and gotten the words correct. This mistake shows to me that he was writing a memoir- he didn't write the words that the SS sang correctly, but as he remembered them. And so it was truthful, even if it was inaccurate, if that makes sense.
A lot of my belief in the essential truth of the book is the obvious emotion that Sajer felt for his German comrades and his experiences. For example, I don't see how anyone can doubt that this man personally experienced the siege at Memel- as far as I know, the hell at Memel was never emphasized in history books, and he obviously felt compelled to bear witness. IMO, Sajer would have chosen some other, more well-known hell, such as the aftermath of the Dresden firebombing, if he just wanted to write about the hell of war on civilians. Just the way he writes, he was obviously deeply affected by it.
The book just FEELS truthful to me. From the anectdote about the German preacher who gives into the sins of the flesh and then it becomes a running joke among the soldiers to the attitudes of the various Russian civilians (they collaborated a lot more than many realise) it just feels truthful.
And finally, I'd note that the book itself negates any attempts to try to follow the path of the Grossdeutschland division as a whole and compare it to his location. Sajer himself says that at many parts in the retreat, it was just him and a handful of other soldiers and he repeatedly talks about parts of the division re-forming at various locations. We're talking about a rout here, people. During a rout, the first priority of armies is to plug holes and stop the bleeding- not maintain the unit cohesion of a division.
So anyway, I strongly believe the book is basically truthful as far as the experience of combat on the eastern front, although I will reserve judgment on the Stuka squadron and Grossdeutschland issues.
Well the GD issue is not an issue at all!
But bcause the book is full with flaws you have to imagine and think about the real events the Belgorod offensive was post Kursk and a pretty local counterattack to regain belgorod , not a major offensive like kursk but the only thing missing is exact which unit : the fusilier regiment?/ the grenadier regiment/ or the new 1024 regiment?
At the belgorod counteroffensive there were used the GD tiger tank regiment that saw it's first action in late august....
SPR
Last edited by panzerschreck1 on Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hals' real name was Stefan Walls. After the war, he emigrated to the US and settled in the state of Connecticut - and believe it or not, he was an insurance salesman. According to an associate of Sajer's, Sajer has not heard from him since the mid-90s and could possibly have passed away.
mfG,
Doug
Abbott: This sure is a beautiful forest.
Costello: Too bad you can't see it for all those trees!
Please let some evidence show up soon!
I mean before its to late Hi Doug everytghing ok!?
There still are some big questions for me remaining.......
Will there ever be a movie Doug if no .....then to bad cause there are many other certified accounts that could be incorporated but is the world waiting for a german war story in ww2 russia??????
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[
The film is still on track, believe it or not. The director has decided to get busy on it AFTER the release of Black Book - everything takes a back seat until that movie it out - then shortly afterwards there will be a press conference formally announcing the project. When that will take place, I don't know. Just keep hanging in there...
Regards,
Doug
Abbott: This sure is a beautiful forest.
Costello: Too bad you can't see it for all those trees!
Well if the movie is just a matter of time then it would be much better tyo sorten a "few"things out, if they wan't to give a clear view of the war...
My points of sorrow and incomprehension are still
1 Belgorod counteroffensive (which GD unit?)
2 february , march 45 accounts , after the withdrawal from Memel Sajer subsequently described Broensen as a battle scene according to Beaviso http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=45
: it couldn't had taken place as in the exact order...
These things should really be sorted out first , for the movie's sake....
"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."[
Doug Nash wrote:The film is still on track, believe it or not. The director has decided to get busy on it AFTER the release of Black Book - everything takes a back seat until that movie it out - then shortly afterwards there will be a press conference formally announcing the project. When that will take place, I don't know. Just keep hanging in there...
Regards,
Doug
Wow Doug, I had no idea that they were making a movie of The Fogotten Soldier! I'm heading over to the IMDb boards now to check it out, so thanks for the heads up mate! As for the book, I agree with Rigel, to me it does have the ring of truth to it. I first read it decades ago, and it's still in a box somewhere. When I find it again, I'll definately re-read it.
Apparently, Sajer and Walls did meet a couple of times after the war in Germany - Sajer even made at least one GD reunion, but reportedly hung by himself and didn't mix much. Sajer hasn't heard from Walls since 1996 or so - no idea whether Walls liked the book. If anyone could ever locate him in the states, what a coup that would be.
Cheers,
Doug
Abbott: This sure is a beautiful forest.
Costello: Too bad you can't see it for all those trees!
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