Commanders of 3rd Mountain Division 1938-45?

[sid guttridge]

Hi KlemenL,

Thanks for adding Franek to the list. My information on 44th Infantry Division's commanders ended with Deboi in mid 1942. Have you a list of the others after Deboi?

The information on Franek marks an important breakthrough, because it indicates that it was possible for an Austrian to be given command of an Austrian-raised division at the front after the first year of the war. If there are two or three more Austrian commanders of the first seven Austrian-raised divisions, then the Austrian proportion will roughly reflect that of Austria's share of the 1938 Reich population. Alternatively, the proportion might return to ballance when I have checked Welle V and above.

The equal sharing of command of Austrian-raised formations between Austrians and Germans in 1938-39 was not a random coincidence but a policy. I believe it also occurred at Wehrkreis level as well.

Cheers,

Sid.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Jason,

Just to confirm that KlemenL is right. I was looking at Austrian commanders appointed to command Austrian-raised divisions after the outbreak of war. Austrians made up about 8.5% of the Reich's population in 1938. Therefore, assuming their appointments were random, one would expect that about 1 in 12 commanders of Austrian-raised divisions appointed during the war would be Austrian. Until Ringel and Franek turned up, it looked as though there might have been no Austrian appointed to command an Austrian division during the war (as opposed to still commanding it as a result of a peacetime appointment before the outbreak of war).

There certainly seems to have been a change in policy, because over 1938-39 50% of Austrian-raised active divisions were commanded by Austrians, whereas so far it seems that only about 5% of those commanders appointed during the war were Austrians. (Whether there was a similar phenomenon in other wehrkreise, I do not know. I might check WK I later as a comparison.)

I haven't yet looked at Austrian divisions later than Welle 4, so things may even up later.

Cheers,

Sid.

[sid guttridge]

Hi LlemenL,

I am particularly interested in the decline in the Austrian content of the manpower in Austrian-raised divisions that you mention. I have an Oxford or Cambridge Encyclopedia of WWII that states the same thing. I wrote to the author a few years back asking about his source for this information, but he sent no reply.

Do you have a source? Does it give a reason for this dilution of Austrian-raised divisions? Most importantly, was it an Austrian phenomenon or just one generally experienced in Alt Reich divisions as well? It might be of considerable significance if Austrian divisions were demonstrably more likely to be diluted than German ones and really were "Austrian only by name".

I can see nothing remarkable in the presence of South Tyroleans, Slovenes, Sudeten Germans in Austrian raised divisions, as the Austrian Wehrkreise XVII and XVIII were extended into all these neighbouring areas. However, the presence of Bavarians, Alsatians, Lorrainers and Silesians, who came from other wehrkreise, does seem more worthy of note.

Cheers,

Sid.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Schimmelgraf II and Stauffenberg,

Many thanks for the list of Austrian general officers.

Do either of you happen to know what proportion of the total Reich general officer corps consisted of Austrians? Austrians made up about 8.5% of the Reich population after the Anschluss. Did they make up 8.5% of the corps of generals and admirals?

For example, from your list, if three Austrian general-oberste was in proportion, there would have been about 36 general-oberste appointed across the Reich. Similarly, one might expect there to have been 19 Austrians amongst 228 generals, etc. Were there about 36 colonel-generals and 228 generals?

Many thanks,

Sid.

[Stauffenberg]

Sid,

you might find that thread interesting:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... t=krischer

[Stauffenberg]

Sid,

I have never counted the 3-star-generals but I can deliver the amount of field marshals and Gen. Obst promoted between 1920 and 1945 in Reichswehr and Wehrmacht:

19 Army marshals
37 Army Gen. Obst., of which 2 Austrians
6 Luftwaffe marshals
12 Luftwaffe Gen. Obst., of which 1 Austrian
2 Navy Großadm.
11 Navy Genadm.

[KlemenL]

Thanks for adding Franek to the list. My information on 44th Infantry Division's commanders ended with Deboi in mid 1942. Have you a list of the others after Deboi?

Following the destruction of the 44th Infantry Division in Stalingrad in January 1943, a new division called the 44. Reichs-Grenadier-Division Hoch und Deutschmeister was formed in March 1944. The divisional commanders were as follows:

* General der Infanterie Dr. Franz Beyer: 1 March 1943 - 1 January 1944 (GER)
* Generalleutnant Dr. Friedrich Franek: 1 January 1944 - 1 May 1944 (AUT)
* Generalleutnant Bruno Ortner: 1 May 1944 - 25 June 1944 (AUT)
* Generalleutnant Hans-Günther von Rost: 25 June 1944 - 23 March 1945 (GER)

Some of the sources that I have seen claim that for a short period from 23rd March 1945 to 8 May 1945 the division was commanded by one certain Colonel Hoffmann. I can't confirm whether this is true or not.

As you can see there out four (five) divisional commanders of the 44. Reichs-Grenadier-Division Hoch und Deutschmeister at least two were Austrians (Franek and Ortner). I didn't know until today when seeing Stauffenberg's list that Bruno Ortner was indeed an Austrian general just as I was speculating, but never receiving any formal confirmation. Unfortunately I don't know what nationality was Oberst Hoffmann.

General der Infanterie Dr. Franz Beyer was from Bautzen (Sachsen) and Generalleutnant Hans-Günther von Rost was from Hannover (Niedersachsen).

Do you have a source? Does it give a reason for this dilution of Austrian-raised divisions? Most importantly, was it an Austrian phenomenon or just one generally experienced in Alt Reich divisions as well?

After winter 1942/43, when the German army suffered heavy casualties in Africa and on the East Front (Moscow, Caucasus and Stalingrad) the policy of keeping divisions at full strength with new recruits from the domestic divisional recruiting area was slowly abandoned. Austria simply could not afford to loose again the entire division. What many people seem to forget these days is that Stalingrad was foremost an Austrian tragedy. Some 50,000 Austrians, most of them were serving with the 44th Infantry Division (Wien) and 297th Infantry Division (Bruck an der Leitha), were lost at Stalingrad. Both Austrian divisions were almost completely annihilated and this was something what reasonably small Austria with a population of just 7.5 million could not afford to go through all over again. So in order to avoid such painful casualties the new recruits were widely dispersed among different units. Many of them still went to serve in their home parent unit, but not anymore in such great numbers as before.

I don't have concrete information as to which divisions had the greatest percentage of Austrian recruits after 1943, but maybe our Austrian friuends can help us with this. My primary sources have been the memoires of soldiers who served in the Gebirgs-divisions. Many of them recalled that the divisions included many Austrians, but there were also a lot of Germans, Poles, Czechs, Sudeten Germans, Alsatians and Slovenes.

. However, the presence of Bavarians, Alsatians, Lorrainers and Silesians, who came from other wehrkreise, does seem more worthy of note.

Nothing unusual for the period after 1943. I know for example for some cases of smaller groupes of Slovene recruits who were distributed among several depleted East Prussian and Sachsen divisions. It all depended how under-strength was a certain division. The one, which most badly needed the new reinforcements, usually received it, no matter the nationality of the new recruits.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Stauffenberg,

Many thanks for the Axis History Forum thread. It is very interesting. I will print it off and read it a leisure.

It looks as though Austrians were under represented at the highest command levels. However, as it would only have taken the appointment of one Austrian field marshal and one more Austrian colonel-general to bring them up to average Reich levels of representation this may not be particularly significant. I suspect there may have been some Alt Reich regions and wehrkreise with even lower representation at the highest command levels.

Cheers,

Sid.

[sid guttridge]

Hi KlemenL,

The addition of Ortner means that Austrian representation amongst divisional commanders appointed to command Austrian-raised active divisions during the war is very similar to what one would expect from random distribution. So that pretty much lays to rest the possibility that Austrians were deliberately excluded from commanding Austrian-raised divisions during the war.

However, it does not necessarily exclude the possibility that Austrians were unusually rarely appointed to command divisions from their home area. That could, however, only be established by finding out if divisional commanders in the rest of the Reich more often came from the same areas as their commands. I will check out the divisions of Wehrkreis I for a comparison.

Many thanks,

Sid.

[genstab]

I have two more Acting Commanders:

Oberst Hans Moench 8-8-42 to (ending date not sure but his next command was 20-9-42) Stellv. Fuehrer
Oberst Hans Kreppel 28-5-44 to 3-7-44 mFb

[sid guttridge]

Hi Genstab,

Thanks.

Both were apparently Germans, one from Munich and the other from Wilhelmshaven.

Cheers,

Sid.

[KlemenL]

The addition of Ortner means that Austrian representation amongst divisional commanders appointed to command Austrian-raised active divisions during the war is very similar to what one would expect from random distribution.

I don't think that OKW has put much attention to who is the commanding officer of an Austrian (or German) division. All German or Austrian generals were professional soldiers, so they were send where the OKW has sent them.

Were Scottish or Welsh regiments always commanded by Welsh or Scottish officers? Or Irish divisions in World War 1 by Irish generals? I don't think so.

However, it does not necessarily exclude the possibility that Austrians were unusually rarely appointed to command divisions from their home area.

There were only five or six regular Austrian army divisions and several hundreds Wehrmacht generals. It is obvious that OKW had a lot of choice. At first most division received Austrian generals but later everything was left to OKW. Who was at hand he got the jobe. I think it was the same in other armies as well.

That could, however, only be established by finding out if divisional commanders in the rest of the Reich more often came from the same areas as their commands.

I think that such appointments were rare, but there were.

[sid guttridge]

Hi KlemenL,

The Reich high command very definitely paid close attention to command appointments to Austrian divisions and wehrkreise in 1938-39, because a 50:50 share of command posts between Germans and Austrians was adopted. However, this clearly stopped after the outbreak of war, so there was clearly some sort of policy change. We are still trying to establish whether the new policy was peculiar to Austria or was typical of the Reich as a whole.

As a quarter of the Austrian officer corps was dismissed as unreliable after the Anschluss, it is likely that the German high command regarded the remainder as basically reliable.

Nevertheless, it would appear that Austrians were slightly under represented at the highest command levels. However, this might be because the Austrian Army began full scale expansion later than the German and so Austrian officers had not received the accelerated promotions that German officers did during the mid 1930s.

Scottish regiments are certainly almost always commanded by Scots. A quick look at the commanders of 51st Highland Division should establish whether this was true at divisional level, but my guess is that it is the case there as well.

Cheers,

Sid.