Security units in France 1941-1944

[Jason Long]

Loïc and Rich,
Don't feel shy about asking for Tessin lookups, especially if you're not in a hurry. I still need to pull out the next volume and see if any more LS-Rgt. were formed from 200 on up from the horde of batallionen present, but I'll get around to that sometime.

I should rephrase that bit about Sich.Btl. 199. It seems to have been formed by consolidating the remnants of the regiment, but there's no mention of any of the other battalions being reformed so maybe they planned to do so, but ran out of manpower or something.

Jason

[Rich]

Loïc and Rich,
Don't feel shy about asking for Tessin lookups, especially if you're not in a hurry.

Hi Jason,

Did you actually buy Tessin? Wow, that's a heck of an investment! And where did you secure a copy from? If I have to consult him for anything it requires an all day trip to LOC, which is no fun at all.

I should rephrase that bit about Sich.Btl. 199. It seems to have been formed by consolidating the remnants of the regiment, but there's no mention of any of the other battalions being reformed so maybe they planned to do so, but ran out of manpower or something.

Jason

Ooops, I may not have been clear with my question. It appears that you have a partial double entry for Sich.-Regt.198, all except for the last line of the second entry, which presumably would be Sich.-Regt. 199, is a repeat of the entry for 198. Thus my question regarding Ls.-Btl. 654 being renamed as III./Sich.-Regt. 199 at Troyes.

<edit> Also, you show Ls.-Btl. 658 as both IV/194 and IV/195, while I/644 and 4/658 also appear as 13. and 14. Kompanie for both regiments?</edit>

All the best,

Rich

[Rich]

Don't feel shy about asking for Tessin lookups, especially if you're not in a hurry.

Some more curiosities.

My OB for 7 AOK shows Kommandeur der Armee-Nachschubtruppen 575
included 1./Landesshützen-Btl. z.b.V. 390 with a strength of 29 as of March 1944.

Also, weren't the "POW" Btln. actually Ost-Bataillionen? I find that 799. was a Georgian battalion attached to Militarbefehlshaber Frankreich? I believe that 339. may also have been Ost, attached to Bevollmachtigt General der deutschen Wehrmacht in southern France/northern Italy (at least as of July 1943)? Or are these simply cases of number duplication?

Anyway, thanks for the information. BTW, have I sent you my draft German OB for 6 June 1944? If not send me a PM, I would love to have you review it.

Rich

[Jason Long]

Rich,
You were right, I'd missed fixing those after using one as a template. All fixed now. I've got a complete set of Tessin. Most of which I bought myself and a few volumes copied. I bought them at Articles of War back when I was well-off.

LS-Btl. 390
4 Jun 40 formed in WK IV
1 Aug 43 assigned to OQu of 7th Army
No other info

The LS-Btl. were numbered in a completely separate series than the Ost-Btl. And by POW battalion I meant guarding POW camps, which was one of the 3 main duties of the LS-Btl.
Here are histories of the two battalions that you mention:

Landessch&uuml;tzen-Bataillon 339
I./Sicherungs-Rgt. 199 (15 Feb 43)
5 Oct 42 formed in Eastern France from 1., 2., 6./LS-Btl. 341
Jan 43 Troyes, France

Landessch&uuml;tzen-Bataillon 799
1 Oct 42 formed from 1., 3., 4./LS-Btl. 961
5 Apr 43 Auxerre, France
Aug 43 redesignated as Gren.Btl. z. b. V. 929

Jason

[Rich]

Rich,
You were right, I'd missed fixing those after using one as a template. All fixed now. I've got a complete set of Tessin. Most of which I bought myself and a few volumes copied. I bought them at Articles of War back when I was well-off.

Thanks a lot Jason, that helps. Would you have any more information on Sich.-Regt. Böhmer or the other Ls.-Btl. (Sich.-Btl.) not incorporated into the regiments in the reorganization of February 1943? IOW Ls.-Btl. 340, 418, 453, 459, 503, 505, 527, 581, 644, 656, 685, 686, 690, 691, 703, 745, 748, 751, 756, 758, 761, 769, 799, 846, 903, 904, 907, 971?

I know its asking a lot, but any info would be great.

Rich

[Jason Long]

Rich,
Don't forget that some of these get absorbed by the Ls-Rgt. originally in France, like 66. I think that I'll do them first and then all the others, but it will take a while. I need to enter them into my Landesschützen unit listing anyways. There's really not much on these guys for the 44 period, if that's what you're looking for.

Jason

[Rich]

Rich,
Don't forget that some of these get absorbed by the Ls-Rgt. originally in France, like 66. I think that I'll do them first and then all the others, but it will take a while. I need to enter them into my Landesschützen unit listing anyways. There's really not much on these guys for the 44 period, if that's what you're looking for.

Jason

Part of the reason I am interested is an old argument/discussion I have had with Niklas Zetterling regarding the strength of German forces in Ob. West. You can make a case for taking strengths from the Feldheer and claiming that the Germans had no more than 880,000 men, including Heer, Waffen-SS and Luftwaffe. But you can also look at the overall strengths and say that there were probably close to 1.3-million Wehrmacht in Ob.West. Furthermore, comparing the MIA reported for Ob.West simply doesn't match well with the numbers of PW reported by the Allies. But again if you look at the large numbers of non-Feldheer Wehrmacht personnel in Ob.West, then the Allied reports make a lot more sense. And the personnel 14-odd Sicherungs Regimenter and 27-odd other battalions begins to add up, particularly when you find that many of them were disbanded at the end of the campaign.

Anyway, thanks again for the information.

[Shadow]

Don't feel shy about asking for Tessin lookups, especially if you're not in a hurry.

Jason - I always knew you had a heart of gold !!



Best regards,

John

[Jason Long]

Sicherungs-Regiment Stab 95 (1 Jun 42)
1 Jun 40 formed in Erfurt, WK IX, from Stab Ls-Rgt. 93
15 May 41 Vesoul, France under Bezirkschef C
31 May 42 commanding Ls-Btl. 764, 341, 763, 340, 341, 418, 763, 758, 340, 751, 768, 385, 656, 769, 656
7 Jan 43 commanding Ls-Btl. 764, 338, 817, 763, 339, 654, 768, 418, 751, 340, 758, 656
15 Feb 43 Ls-Btl. 751, 340, 758 and 418 as I.-IV., 13. (schw.) from 4./764, and 14 (Pi.) from 4./758
7 Aug 43 Stab and IV. redesignated as Stab and II./Sich.Rgt. Böhmer and transferred to southern France
14 Dec 43 Stab and II. returned to their previous designations
Dec 44 disbanded

[Jason Long]

Landessch&uuml;tzen-Regiment Stab z.b.V. 56
Sicherungs-Regiment 56 (3 Jun 42)
19 Sep 40 formed in WK V
10 Feb 43 I.-IV. formed from Ls-Btl. 903, 904, 453 and 459 respectively, 13. from 4./605 and 14. from 3./459
Nov 43 I. transferred to Russia and later redesignated as I./Sich.Rgt. 44
1944 located in Angers, Quimper, Nantes
17 Nov 44 disbanded, remnants to 711th Infantry Division

Landessch&uuml;tzen-Regiment Stab z.b.V. 66
Sicherungs-Regiment 66 (15 Feb 43)
20 Sep 40 formed in WK VI
15 May 41 St. Quentin, France under Bezirkschef A with Ls-Btl. 378, 420, 482, 483, 528, 577, 580, 581, 583, 817, 839, 906, 907, 951
15 Feb 43 I.-IV. formed from Ls-Btl. 703, 756, 761 and 505 respectively
Nov 43 I. transferred to Army Group Center, Russia
Jun 44 I. destroyed at Mogilev
Nov 44 formally disbanded

Tessin has some locations for the battalions, but unfortunately no dates.

[Rich]

Landessch&uuml;tzen-Regiment Stab z.b.V. 56
Sicherungs-Regiment 56 (3 Jun 42)
19 Sep 40 formed in WK V
10 Feb 43 I.-IV. formed from Ls-Btl. 903, 904, 453 and 459 respectively, 13. from 4./605 and 14. from 3./459
Nov 43 I. transferred to Russia and later redesignated as I./Sich.Rgt. 44
1944 located in Angers, Quimper, Nantes
17 Nov 44 disbanded, remnants to 711th Infantry Division

Hi Jason, thanks for the additional information!

One thing I noticed though. I suspect that Sich.-Regt. "5." and "6." of 325. Division may actually be a misrepresentation of Sich.-Regt. "56." The British accounts of the assault on Le Havre specifically mention a "3rd Battalion" of "Security Regiment 5" that was "formerly known as Ls.-Btl. 453" as part of the German garrison.

Or does Tessin have more on the 5. and 6. Regiment? What do you think?

Rich

[Hans Weber]

Hello

Landesschützen-Bataillon 453 transfered personal to Wach-Regiment Paris 2 when this unit was formed (mainly from LS Btl 453, 454 and 457). It was not disbanded however and later became III./Sicherungs-Regiment 56.

Wachregiment Paris 2 was renamed Sicherungs-Regiment 5 on the 1st Sept 1942.

The error lies with the Brits interpreting the PoW statement the wrong way or the the PoW beeing not exact. They should have asked Tessin

HTH

Cheers
Hans

[Rich]

The error lies with the Brits interpreting the PoW statement the wrong way or the the PoW beeing not exact. They should have asked Tessin

Thanks, that's all clear as mud. So what were Sicherungs-Regiment 5. and 6. comprised of then?

[Hans Weber]

Sicherungs-Regiment 5

see above, re Wach-Regiment Paris 2 add a sprinkling of men coming from all possible Wehrkreise.

Sicherungs-Regiment 6

From Wach-Regiment Paris 3, not much more info availabe, except that III./Wach-Regiment 3 was from Landesschützen Btl. 817

Cheers
Hans